Thursday, September 20, 2007

on brinjal and cucumber.

i'm sure most of you are aware of this.

yesterday, my friend who's just had a newborn early this month told me:

"i'm thinking about moving out of the papers! what has become of our society?? i fear for my little kyllie..."

"eh...don't be so kiasu you sound like a bloody sporean...remember the hongkees?? they were afraid of returning to china too in 1997...but look, it worked out just as fine! remember, it if can't kill you, it'll only make you stronger..."

honestly, i think he over reacted. yes, the crime rates are increasing in malaysia. yes, the streets are no longer safe, not even our own homes. yes, the NEP is still going strong. and yes, i don't have a child, so i won't know how it's like to worry 24/7 about children and whether or not they can realise their full potential in this country where double standards are practised.

one thing i'd like to say is, crime (or social disparity) happens everywhere. and i honestly don't think running away (to another country) will help. it's just the degree of it that sets us different from other countries. of course, there are also many other reasons to this hasty decision. some people are running away because of inflation, less employment opportunities, poverty, social disparity, political issues etc. etc. the list goes on and on. people tend to have so many things to complain about their country all the time they forget where they came from in the first place! and the citizenship or passport they're holding for that matter.

i've been equally guilty of that. but these days, i try to make myself see a list of things i (or we) can improve about the country and its system instead of just its faults. in other words, i'd think running away isn't the best solution.


is our country really that bad a place to live in?? what say you?...


KahJoon said...

i totally agree with you on this. seeing only the faults and not thinking of ways to help alleviate the problems don't help at all. running away is definitely not the answer here. well like u said the pastures are always greener on the other side. many ppl think that way. i for one don't really like that saying. i love malaysia alot and i think much can be done to improve the current situation.

for a start, vote for the opposition to give the government a wake up call and give the opposition a say in parliament.

damn this is interesting but i dont really have the luxury of time right at this moment. so i'll be back to comment about this tomorrow.

J-Chee said...

I have a friend, a chatter friend also planning to migrate, to AUS. The 1st thing he looked into was the crime rate. He said it's for his kids. Coz nowadays no ppl dares to let their children to play not to say in the playground, not even jz outside the house.. Really getting worse.. and argh.. i jz wana kutuk, *they* u know who, sommore get raise in pay!! and.. i dono what is Nurin's parents thinking.. if they do think tat is.. =,= sigh...

And more depressing is, when i discuss abt hw we can do to improve things with him, i sumhw see that thr's really no way, or rather REALLY difficult to do something.. or rather he convinced me n aih.. and man.. it takes time!! =.=

my friend said, it's not running away, it's survival, quite true oso lo... n he said, the boat is sinking, do u still wan to stay in the boat? =,= sigh.. depress =,=

cant think now...

yeevon said...

hmm.. i haven't been following this whole Nurin story so yeah i'm quite clueless about it.

but anyway hey Cheryl. [y'know i thought you were Jiao Chee. haha. i'm not quite good at reading Mandarin characters though i attended whole 6 years of primary education in a chinese school. i thought that Mandarin character you use is 'Jiao' in Mandarin. haha.]

so as i was saying, i don't know about this Nurin thing. all i know that it was about a horrible crime. but i guess almost everyone of us are being raised to think 'the grass is always greener on the other side'. and if we start bitching about our grass being not green enough, we are advised to just shut up and be thankful we get no Hurricane Katrinas and earthquakes.

kj and j-chee has got a point. running away to save our butt and then complaining and not do anything is worthless. but staying and fighting a fight most people don't want part of is almost as good as playing a game of four yourself. why bother? they think.

i for one has been raised and advised[or told] constantly to "faster get a degree, go overseas work, get PR then we all pindah there with you". i think it's so wrong! this is the kind of mindset that keeps everyone thinking wrongly about the country that's been feeding you. government, i won't say anything because i believe i know nuts about them haha. but i say, i like it here despite some of the outrageous things we read on papers. and i say i love M'sia because there is a reason to why i was being born and raised here. i don't have to love the things crappy criminals and corrupted people do to love M'sia. we should be doing something rather than grab our luggages and flee.

phew, okay that's just what i think la okay. i haven't been very active here so yeah, this is like a comeback (?) [like i was ever here haha!] :)

L.W.Jau Yn said...

Hey peeps,
Well erm... i've grown up in brunei and stayed in malaysia for more than a year... and i've been deciding where should i stay here or somewhere else and more likely i'll by flying off somewhere. Firstly, it's all about the MONEY. The currency here is well not so satisfying to me and things are quite expensive here. Secondly it's the standard of living where crime and accidents are almost everywhere... true that its everyhwere in country but the rate is different. PLace i grew up in Brunei well... crimes are rare and accidents are not as frequent as well. Air is clean and its almost on par with singapore. Malaysia don't have much to offer to me except that there is more entertaiment, malls, tourists spots and a great variety of food. I don't know wht else can i expect here. Education... erm.. dunno how is it but its a bit more hardcore and demanding. What else? Hm~ dunno what else i can say since i dun grow up here... but all i know its not a safe place for me personally but one thing i like being here is that i become more mature staying here. Life sure is tough but it makes you improve.

Anita said...


Crime takes place in ALMOST every part of the world..

So let's say A runs away 2 another country which at this moment is free from crime..
Then one day a criminal act takes place in the country/place A is living at..

**I hope i've made a clear picture**

Running away is NOT the BEST solution.. U run away from Malaysia to another country, then if crime takes place there, where r u gonna run 2 next??

Malaysia is not a bad place 2 live in.. not ALL places in Malaysia has the touch of crime.. I cnt name the place(s) but it would be wise if we dun GENERALIZE that our country is such a bad place 2 live NOT saying we did..

pls feel free 2 correct me if ya'll find something wrong/unclear in my opinion.. =)

Good day!

amy2kyo said...

I agree with Cheryl's points here. Crimes happen everywhere. If Malaysia is having increasingly high of crime rates, don't you think other countries might have it too? Hmm?

Nurin's case is terrible, it's like what happened to Nurul Huda once upon a time ago. I felt so horrible when I first read it yesterday.

Why do we need to think of migrating in the first place? Can't afford to take care of the kids?

Raising kids are parents' responsibilities. Taking care of them and as well as looking after them.

If your kids want to go out, go with them, make sure you hold their hands. Keeping them safe laaaaa.

That's all I have to say.

KahJoon said...

obviously those ppl who talk about brunei and singapore being a safer place dont understand the concept of proportion. how can u take such a small ocuntry to compare with a country as large as malaysia. with a larger population, the kebarangkalian of crimes to happen definitely higher lah..shows that u dont have any inkling of permutations and probability..why not u go to a bigger country like china and try..with the largest population, the crime rate also sky rocket..go there try lah..

haih~~ sad case..

125z Rider said...

Enough about Nurin. You know what, when the police have captured the guy who did this, What do you think the court will do? Send him to jail, life in prison, hang till death or canning. No! He will be sent for testing and thats where all the things go wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong but we can't punish a who is "crazy" rite? The doctor will give a report saying that he is mentally ill and even tough the case goes on, there will be a stupid organization stating that "Give that guy treatment first and the n we can think of punishing him. Im telling you this might happen because in the tv program 999, a psychologist said "This kind of people can't think rationally, their mentally disturbed" and other sorts of crap. Yes there should be some very drastic action taken but how? I don't know how can we do it but if there is anyone there agree or disagree please give me your comments, Alter all we are still learning right? Wait there is more, During the 8pm news, Tan Sri Musa Hassan said that actions will be taken against Nurin's parents for neglecting their responsibility. The law is there but we are not enforcing it. So this is the first time. To me I think that the person held first responsible is the parents. Why? Will you send your 8 year old daugther who has diabetes "needs a jab daily for that sick" and kidney problem to a pasar malam alone!!!!

125z Rider said...

Minta maaf terputus hubungan, ada orang gila dlm rumah aku.

Surely we will not send. I sense something wrong in the case because a guy cane and gave a statment saying that he say a guy pull Nurin to a white van and she was shouting, Surely alot of people would have seen her then and the cctv camera reported a white van aslo at the plase her body was found (By the way, her body was found in the shop lot beside my flat PJS1. I always go there to tapau food.I was in setapak that day) Get back to the parents story. How come the parents can just leave their child like that, when anything happens grumble like nobodys business. Its not like the parents dont see news and dont know what is going around them. Common sense pun can know what. I know it is sad to lose a daugther in such a tragic way but are the parents doings correct? And what is up with the statment "Saya akan terima budak ini and akan buat semua adat yang perlu tapi saya minta polis jangan tutup kes, cari anak saya sampai dapat" Nurin's father. Reason is bacause the face is not same. Take a good look at the picture of Nurin when she was healthy. U don't expect the same form a body. The torture she went through the suffer with out the medication could have made her look different. A doctor stated the feature of a live person will change when the person is dead. Maybe the father said it because he can feel that his daughter is alive but we have to take into consideration about physical evidence.To me I feel that it is a very bad case and the person who did this should be punish as a normal citizen and should it be a lesson for others. The thing is our law is too kind! Haih I dunno about law stuff that much maybe kj you can help me. Fresh news "Yesterday morning a Form 2 girl was nearly raped near Wangsa Maju Lrt." Lagi teruk!

KahJoon said...

sharwin, i have ntg to comment on your second article. however, i have something i want to say about your first article. i find it very disturbing for u to say tthat the person held first responsible is the parents. come on, the first one responsible is the psychopath murderer. if u still think that the parents should shoulder the biggest blame then i will give u an example.

this example shows that our police force and authorities alwiz bark up the wrong tree.
1. remember the lokap nude squatting incident? the police's first response is who took the video and they want to catch him. i mean WTF, why catch the whistle blower?

2. the recent rusuhan in batu buruk terengganu. do u know that the police is looking for 44 people in connection to the case. do u know that the police shot civilians with live bullets then? there are widespread discussion that the incident of the flag burning was created as a diversion to distract our attention from the shooting incident? here is my point: the police is again barking up the wrong tree by saying that the 44 people are wanted. obviously the police wan to sumbat these ppl into the jail to shut them up as these people can prove taht there is no flag burning that occured but a shooting instead happened. i have totally lost faith in our police and judiciary that i dont want to comment anymore. i rest my case.

KahJoon said...

sharwin, the LAW is NOT too kind. the law is just and fair. its the people interpreting the law and enforcing the law that are the root of the problem. pls do not blame something that has no will of its own and cannot decide any cases. respect the law and constitution.

para DYMM sultan dan agong, on OCT 10 during the Rulers Conference pls do not extend the contract of the current CJ Tun Ahmad Fairuz. he's just a puppet of the Exec. get rid of him and appoint a person of integrity to restore the faith of the people in our judiciary.

125z Rider said...

Hey KJ waitlah dah lah aku kena buat sub-paper. But later lah i will comment the topic u have introduced but i argee with you in a way

Carmen N said...

Ok. Flag burning issue is a RED HERRING!!

But apart from that, I have to say I do agree with Sharwin to a certain degree about the parents also having to take responsibility--NOT that they are the ones to blame like KJ said but certainly, they must be feeling very guilty. This may explain why they are in denial about the body being Nurin.

But to me, blaming the parents for not accompanying their child to pasar malam is one thing... a more important thing is what are parents doing AS A WHOLE to protest, raise their voices to the rising rate of sex crimes against children?

In the US, parents actually get together, have coalitions, plan and organize mass rallies, demonstrations in front of the City Council office or White House (in most cases, they complain to their politicians NOT the police) and they take ACTIVE PART in making sure people know parents are aware of what is going on, parents are PISSED and parents VOTE!!

In Malaysia, what do parents do? I don't just mean Nurin's parents, I mean all the other parents who are reading about the story and going nuts with worry--well, in typical Malaysian Boleh spirit... they plan to MIGRATE!!! Hmmmph.

And I have to say, I bet most of those who plan to migrate are not Malays either. I am just making a speculation here... shoot me if I am wrong.

I am starting to think the Nurin case is indeed perfect for our first discussion!

125z Rider said...

Maybe Dr.Carmen but why do you say that? Oh ya, is it because the will loose their special rights?

KahJoon said...

haha well and truly said, Malaysia Boleh spirit to migrate. wahaha.

Carmen N said...

Sharwin, I am not sure what you mean about the special rights thing? I don't think I ever mentioned that. Please explain.

125z Rider said...

No its just my own thought. You did not say anything at all. I thought that maybe the Malays dont tend to migrate because they might not get the benifits that they are getting here now, for example " Loan for malays with lowest interest rates." Shophouses special price " that knid of stuff. Maybe I am wrong. This is only my opinion.

KahJoon said...

dr carmen, actually malaysian's are capable of taking to the streets, its just depending on the severity of the issue. look at the lawyers who are taking to streets. see

jemufo said...

amy2kyo--why would you assume that if crime rates are rising in malaysia, that they would be rising in other places too?

kahjoon--can you explain why exactly, a higher population would contribute to a higher probability of crime? yes there is the concept of proportion--like, say, if out of every 5 people, 2 are likely to lie, then with 10 people, the number of people likely to lie will increase to 4. it is not clear whether you are referring to a simple proportional increase, or whether you're saying the actual percentage of crime is likely to increase.

Sarah said...

Hi guys, thot i'll just make a guick comment re. crime against children in particular. Just 30 mins ago i happened to tune in to this channel by chance coz DJ's were giving what to me were news comments of whats-happening. In brief takes, there were about 3 "happenings", all of which were related to quick updates about misdeeds against kids here and abroad. Nurin's name was mentioned as bkground. Then i heard the change in tone of voice - DJ's were giving ADVICE in a child-directed tone about not letting strangers into the house and not standing too near the grill door when talking to them..... i was taken aback, this was no regular news comment over radio, it was HARD NEWS for children!!

This is a first, to me at least- a regular children's prog used as the ready channel to inform the right public. I later got to know it's the Mandarin prog "Little Suns". From wat I know, the prog didnt use to cater much to hard news but hey, hard times necessitate hard solutions. The young should be duly armed with info and survival tactics just like we ladies hv learnt over the years reading abt crime against women.

Oh I had meant to post a new matter but this radio prog had caught my attention. I will return to post something about this RM100 exemption fee all Utarians need to pay for the Bahasa Malaysia paper in the coming short sem which i think is totally without basis.

Meantime, this is Sarah from 2nd EL batch asying Hi and Bye for now. I have enjoyed your CT sessions those times when i cud attend. Good work all.

amy2kyo said...

Hmm, Jemufo, there bound to have crimes everywhere in the world.

My point reflects to Kah Joon's. If everyone thinks that migrating the other countries because they have lower crime rate, then that particular country's population will increase.

Try to google for 'crime rate in 2007', you'll see tonnes of news from all over the countries that the crime rates are increasing.

KahJoon said...

yixing, let me explain further on the concept of proportionality and probablity. we'll take malaysia and compare it to indonesia. ok? malaysia's population is 26 million and indonesia have 300 million. the crimes rise in proportion bcoz of the population increase. the more population, the higher the probablity for crimes to happen.

alright, some ppl might say hey it's just probablity. it might or might not happen. let me tell u this, its not just some random predicting. probablity is all about statistics.i duno how to explain d lah..those who got learn pure maths in f6 will understand wat i say..

if any of you think that malaysia is unsafe and want to migrate. pls do so, no one's stopping you. what i have to say is, why not relinquish your malaysian nationality as well cause you dislike malaysia so much.


whaaa...i was just away for 3 days and so many ppl taking part in discussion already! took me awhile to read everything that you guys have commented...

oh well, i guess some parents have every right to freak out and opt for the easy way out eg migrate etc.

but like i said, these things happen everywhere...not just in malaysia..

and i agree that some parents are to be blamed, really. i mean, just take a walk to IKEA over the weekends, stand there for 2 hours and count how many missing child announcements they'd make! i can't imagine how a parent would be so busy shopping they'd lose a child...i just don't get it! *scratch head*

seriously, these kinda parents who lack parenting skills ought to be shot!

jemufo said...

amy--if you have evidence to back it up, that's fine! I pointed it out, because what you said originally sounded like an assumption, without proper research/evidence.

kahjoon--I understand the concepts of proportionality and probability. what I was trying to ask was for you to clarify was whether you were referring to the probability of a straightforward proportional increase, or whether you were referring to the probability of MORE than a proportional increase.

To use my previous example. if it was a simple proportional increase:
then if out of every 5 people, the probability is that 2 will be liars, then out of every 10 people the probability is that 4 will be liars.

but one could make the argument that it is more than that. for example, you could argue that when there are more people in close proximity, every individual is more likely to be influenced by different ideas. and so perhaps, out of 10 people, the probability of liars might be six out of ten, instead of four like in a proportional increase.

In any case, I just think it is a bit simplistic to say "more people, more crime", because there are so many factors involved. like...the effectiveness/non-effectiveness of the police squad in a particular city or country, or the sociological context in general--do people think they can get away with crime? e.g. perhaps there is less crime in smaller towns because everybody knows everybody else, and you are more likely to get caught. whereas in cities it might be easier to get away with shit.

the broken windows theory is an example of the kind of slightly more complex sociological factors that I am referring to: fixing broken windows



you're right, it'd definitely not just about 'more people, more crime'...there are many factors that contribute to the rising crime rates..ignorance is one BIG one...

and many people tend to argue that places like america etc is safer. well you know what, there's just another shooting-in-school case i saw on news last night (or was it last 2 nites?)...there are rape cases in US as well (no matter how much respect they have for women compared to our people here)...there are sexual harrassment every where...i mean, it happens everywhere damnit!

and if you think bangaladeshis or black skinned ppl are just kinky and sick (for stuffs like cucumber, brinjal and god knows what else), THINK AGAIN!...during my 1 week hotel stay here in spore, those who get 2-3 lady escorts back to their hotel rooms were Matt Sallehs!!! what i'm trying to say is, everyone is capable of being a victim or the culprit and it happens everywhere...packing your bags and fleeing just ain't the way out!

Shannie said...

MALAYSIA is not safe. Why? I personally experienced a few incidents where I was almost robbed and assaulted. Besides, look at the way our houses are build, we have grills and fences everywhere. Why do we need all these if it is safe?

Let's just look at snatch thieves, everyday people dread walking on the streets. They don't know where or when they are going to be the next victim. It’s like every time they step foot out of their house, it’s another crime waiting to happen.

You really can’t blame them for wanting to migrate or get the hell out of here. And most of the time it’s not because they want to run away. They just want to go to a place where they feel safe for their family and for their kids.

There is a difference between loving Malaysia and Malaysia being safe. People who want to migrate don’t necessarily mean that they don’t love Malaysia.

Crimes do happen everywhere and what makes it so different is just how often they occur?

KahJoon said...

well, i dont know about others. to me, if the person loves the country, he should stay and make a difference. not run away. even if i am just one out of say 26 million, i'll still stay and try to correct the situation. if everybody have that mindset, definitely there's something could be done. running away is sherking the responsibility of a citizen.

jeannie said...

You could be right but for many, when they feel that their family's lives are in danger, will they still think as u do? It's the security feeling in them that makes them hard to see that wherever they go, they'll still be crimes. So if they migrate, the only changes is their feelings of security although in reality crimes still happen where ever they go. But if they can feel better by migrating, then they won't be any harm to migrate. Maybe when they saw the 'truth' that crimes are everywhere, they'll come back with a more positive mindset abt Malaysia.
I don't think I will migrate becuz of this reason but i would still want to travel to foreign countries.HAHA! (red herring)
Btw, after reading shan's comment, i'm wondering why in other countries they can hv their houses without fences and they can still live safely but in Malaysia if the houses are without fences then will most probably 'mati'. Haha!

Carmen N said...

Ok! Definitely 10000% I have to show you this documentary about gun violence in America by Michael Moore, called Bowling for Columbine. It directly looks at Canada, where people don't lock their doors and America, where people do and there is tons of violence and crime and all manner of child sex crimes, etc.

Sorry... just a note to let you all know this is a good movie. If you see it, buy it and watch it. If not, wait for me to show it next semester when we have our film screening series... more on that later... :-)

KahJoon said...

hei, hold on a sec. i dont think we should say in malaysia we cannot afford to not fence our house and lock the doors. not all places in malaysia are like that. my home back in melaka, i dont lock the doors convenient. no need so many keys and so many car i just close the door thats all, i dont lock 1.

amy2kyo said...

yay! movie time! but have to wait til next sem, that's kinda loooooong. can't wait*

btw, kahjoon's got a point there. i never meant to say you're living in a "kampung" (i'm sorry if you'll ever get offended) but then again, there's a place in perak, some high class residential area cater to those rich asses.

there's a part of the housing that doesn't have fences, more like country houses and i think it's cool. don't have to worry that i'll forget to lock cars doors.

but then again, there's security system, but that doesn't mean the place is safe right? hehe.

hmm, police forces have to come into picture now. why? our police forces here only know how to set up road blocks to take duit kopi and didn't bother about patrolling around for the sake of protecting the citizens from criminals.

i don't mean to generalise, but it's so obvious that police don't do much right? what do you think?

Carmen N said...

You are absolutely right KJ. Not all places in Malaysia are so lock-obssessed.

I revise my statement earlier. :-) Very good point you raised!

When doing my own reading about the Broken Window Theory that Yi Xing pointed us to, it became clear to me that it is only in mostly the cities/urban areas where people are STRANGERS to each other and prefer not to know their neighbours that we have a higher rate of locking doors, cars, etc.

So, is there a correlation here between places where people look out for each other and care about the welfare of their neighbours AND low rate of fear/crime?

Much to discuss for our first discussion certainly!!

KahJoon said...

actually i dont mind u saying i live in a kampung. i loved it actually. it's so peaceful clean, green and quiet.

KahJoon said...

ok for the probability and proportions concept. the increase that will be MORE than what is allowed under mathematical rules doesn't apply. all i'm saying is, i follow mathematical concepts in doing comparison. the rates maybe increase proportionally or be less but then it couldn't be MORE unless there are inteference that were not taken into the equation like yixing and cheryl said..